The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them anyway

by Puffin, Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:40:26 PM EST

There's been handwringing about Senator Obama's opposition to the recent Supreme Court decision denying the death penalty for child rapists. The senator's opinion on this ruling is entirely consistent with his previous statements. Here's one documented by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life:

http://pewforum.org/religion08/compare.p hp?Issue=Death_Penalty

Obama says the death penalty "does little to deter crime" but he supports it for cases in which "the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage."

So, since child rape (as opposed to the rape of grown women or men) is so reviled by the community, the death penalty is to be imposed...even though it doesn't work.

Am I missing something here?




Tags: Obama, death penalty, rape (all tags)

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Re: The death penalty doesn't work - (2.00 / 2)

Yes, you are.  Not everyone believes that the sole purposes of the criminal justice system are to rehabilitate or deter.  Sometimes it is also intended to punish.  Clearly, that is the point of the quote.


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:42:37 PM EST

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - (none / 0)

And life imprisonement without parole is not enough punishment?


by Puffin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - (2.00 / 1)

I believe Obama's argument is that it should be up to the community to decide how to express the "full measure of its outrage."


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - (2.00 / 1)

You beat me to it


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - (2.00 / 2)

Depends on the communities' view on what is enough punishment for that heinous of a crime.


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - (2.00 / 1)

I'm explaining the comment.  I think there are valid arguments on both sides.


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them (none / 0)

Think of Obama's position as "mend it, don't end it." Where "mend it" means extend the death penalty to whatever crimes get people the most riled up.


by souvarine on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:47:19 PM EST

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them (none / 0)

Talk about your slippery slope...


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them (2.00 / 1)

That comment applies to virtually all criminal sentencing.  I mean, what is a 20-year crime?  What is a 40-year crime?  What's a misdemeanor?  What's a felony?


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:53:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them (none / 0)

But I have no doubt about what death is.


by Puffin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:56:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them (2.00 / 2)

I'm not really sure what you're driving at.  The criminal justice system is based on relative degrees of wrongdoing.  Relative to what - some societal view of right and wrong, and what sorts of acts are more wrong than others.  Acts that are more wrong provoke harsher responses (a tipoff that our system is not solely meant for rehabilitative purposes).  It just so happens that your ultimate punishment is life imprisonment, for other people it's the death penalty.  


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The death penalty doesn't work - but kill them (none / 0)

You have to draw a line somewhere.  Death is the ultimate punishment, and we all know the statistics about how it's applied.  Once we start expanding the death penalty beyond its current scope, we get into dangerous territory. Personally, I find it abhorrent and believe it should be abolished.

At least if you incarcerate someone for 20 years (or 40 or whatever), if a mistake is made you can let them out.  There are no do-overs with the death penalty, and with imperfect knowledge, the risk is just too great.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 09:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Smart (none / 0)

I think it's politically smart.  He'll win the anti-death penalty crowd anyway.  

But there are a lot of pro-death penalty, moderate folks out there, and who among us doesn't revile the rapist or pedophile?  

While I disagree with his stance, it's a commentary on a court decision.  He's taking a stance on an issue he can't possibly affect, because the SC just ruled it unconstitutional.  Again...smart.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:01:43 PM EST

Re: Smart (none / 0)

"He's taking a stance on an issue he can't possibly affect,"

That's cynical. I'd give Obama more credit than that - I think previous posters are on the right track - he supports the death penalty as a means of vengeance.


by Puffin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

Also, I think the President has commutation power over Federal death sentences.

Not to mention appointing justices who oppose the DP.  Doesn't look like that is likely does it?


by mady on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

Maybe once the triangulation-fest of the GE is done.


by semiquaver on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 07:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

I'm not feeling cynical about this.  I've supported Obama for a long time, but disagree with him on this, even though I think it's politically smart, just as it's politically smart for McCain to decry "liberal" court rulings (few and far between as they are) in order to rally his nutjob base.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

I am realizing more and more I am clearly not apart of the far left.  I agree with him 100% on this, it is that reprehensible and communities should be able to decide these things.  Unless being against the death penalty is a new litmus test, in my mind, only a child rapist that is also a murderer deserves it more, and from a man with 2 young daughters like he has, anything else may have shaken my faith in him.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

Over 100,000 children under the age of 8 are raped or sodomized a year in this country. How many of the perpetrators should be put to death?

Keep in mind that the country with the highest execution rate, China, executes maybe 500 people a year. The death penalty does nothing to reduce sexual predation.


by souvarine on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:07:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

over 100,000 should be then.  This is not about deterrence, because people that rape children are capable of being reasoned with.  This is about punishment, and people who destroy the lives of children, if deemed by their community to be acceptable, deserve the death penalty.  China may execute 500 people a year, but they also torture people, and many more just go missing.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:16:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (2.00 / 1)

I would not live in a country where one out of every 3,000 people was executed annually. Few people would be willing to live in such a charnel house, the chances of being accidentally swept up in the carnage would be too great.


by souvarine on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:30:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

Maybe people should stop raping children, maybe that is the answer.  No, clearly that is the answer, child rapist deserve death, because there are laws stopping what they actually deserve.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 12:50:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Smart (none / 0)

I tend to think that my opposition to the death penalty comes more from my strong libertarian streak than from being "far left."

But that's just me.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 11:48:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama supports the death penalty (none / 0)

n/t


Obama was for single payer before he came out against it.
by neaguy on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:28:03 PM EST

Father Pfleger will be on GMA tomorrow morning (none / 0)

I am sure he will weigh in on this issue...and a host of others.


by BJJ Fighter on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32:58 PM EST

Its punishment. (none / 0)

I think he generally believes the rape of a child is that morally reprehensible.  Coming down, even in perception only on the side of a child rapist is political suicide.  Kinda like that asshat in Massachusetts who talked about destroying a young rape victoms life is Jessica's law was passed.  These are not people i would have represent me, ever, on any level.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:36:49 PM EST


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